Generally speaking, I am afraid that most "independents", like "moderates," are simply people who haven't paid enough attention to know what side they should be on. They are the "undecideds" in all the polls taken on election eve; their indecision is premised on being uninformed. Their lack of information is premised on their sheer intellectual laziness. With the amount of information available on line, it takes an act of will to remain unaware. It is usually something completely irrelevant and unimportant that might push them in one direction or another. What is sadder than this is the lack of interest among the electorate, who are more engaged with the latest gossip about their favorite cultural icon in the music or film business than they are with the politicians who will be determining their fates and that of their children. When you stop to realize that, according to a Barna poll teken in 2024 only half of those who identify as "evangelical Christians" bother to vote in most elections, you understand why this country has gone so far off the rails.
Most of the Independents I know are those who have become disgusted with the Republican party, the feeling that they are more interested in the acquisition of power and wealth (and getting reelected above all else) than in representing the will of the people who put them in office. RINO's. Uni-party collaborators. People like Mitt Romney, John McCain, Lindsey Graham. I don't know that I have ever met a recovering Leftie who is now a registered Independent. And now our rogue-in-chief, egomaniacal, self-absorbed bomb-thrower on the right, who I enthusiastically voted for twice seems to be dragging us into economic ruin after he did so well sealing the borders and putting out many of the Biden/Obama brushfires. Having an "R" or "D" behind your name seems no longer a very reliable way for me to determine whether they are truly in the business of politics for the country and its people or for themselves. Am I making an impact by having an "I" behind my name? No, probably not. But I have clearly stated, "I am not one of them". I don't wholly disagree with your assessment, Steve. I think maybe our own experiences color our narrative.
We are all, to greater or lesser degree, products of our environment and at present the environment is toxic, so I appreciate your position. Actually, I am in a similar state of mind. I can find something worth loathing in every politician on the state and federal scene. (I'm not that crazy about the ones in my township, for that matter.) Yet I am always mindful of the wisdom in the expression, "Compared to what?" I think the problem is that we have allowed our society to move so far from its traditional roots one ratchet click at a time, but for such a long time, that it's almost impossible to see where we came from when we look back at our past. We all want to get back to our American roots quickly, even though we were brought to our current situation gradually, like the proverbial frog-in-the-pot. We must all keep in mind that the perfect can be the enemy of the good, so any rejection of the socialist/atheist/feminist/DEI program, no matter how small is a good thing. As the Chinese philosopher once (probably apocrophally) said, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." So, let's all try to keep on stepping!
Welcome to how a Maoist "struggle session" works, pushing the Overton Window on a personal scale. The side causing the discomfort and asking for compromises is the one controlling the window's movement. It's only when there's pushback that the window stays put or reverses. Those willing to cause the most pain and disruption are the ones who win this "contest".
The general disgust and malaise among the population can be directly traced to the lack of practical knowledge of how things work, at least in concept. For most sheeple, it simply is.
As our political landscape becomes increasingly polarized between the rent-seeking freepers and those who believe in personal accountability and productivity; those in the middle may push the window to the "Unacceptable" end of the range. For the fringe elements.
Independents can't vote in primaries in most (all?) states.
So, no. They can't save us because they can't help select candidates that are more sane and / or centrist to begin with. They can only choose from what the primary elections offer up, and as we've seen those - at least on the left - are increasingly whack-o.
The Overton Window seems to be like a survey of the range of opinions, and how strongly they are held.
The extremes, mostly Left, seem to be able to shift the Window, at least in what is in the news and in the blogosphere.
I think that more of the "Independents" are coming from the Left, as their policies become more extreme and Sharia-tolerant, though the RINOs on the Right overlap those on the Left in many ways.
The Independents will make the swings greater, more personal, and more uncertain long before there are any centrist beliefs are developed.
The Left has been able to convince many of their believers that the incoming dangers that we on the Right see are not dangers at all, because "this time we are good enough to make it all work" and that rainbows and unicorns are right around the corner, as soon as we eliminate those evil kulaks.
NO, the independents will not save us. The sheeple will generally go with gives them the most "free" stuff, and, in the end, be surprised by a violent totalitarian government that is cleaning house. " What happened?!?!?!?"
You can vote your way into a toltarian/socialist/communist/dictatorship, but you have to shoot your way out. (BLOAT - jlr)
Generally speaking, I am afraid that most "independents", like "moderates," are simply people who haven't paid enough attention to know what side they should be on. They are the "undecideds" in all the polls taken on election eve; their indecision is premised on being uninformed. Their lack of information is premised on their sheer intellectual laziness. With the amount of information available on line, it takes an act of will to remain unaware. It is usually something completely irrelevant and unimportant that might push them in one direction or another. What is sadder than this is the lack of interest among the electorate, who are more engaged with the latest gossip about their favorite cultural icon in the music or film business than they are with the politicians who will be determining their fates and that of their children. When you stop to realize that, according to a Barna poll teken in 2024 only half of those who identify as "evangelical Christians" bother to vote in most elections, you understand why this country has gone so far off the rails.
Most of the Independents I know are those who have become disgusted with the Republican party, the feeling that they are more interested in the acquisition of power and wealth (and getting reelected above all else) than in representing the will of the people who put them in office. RINO's. Uni-party collaborators. People like Mitt Romney, John McCain, Lindsey Graham. I don't know that I have ever met a recovering Leftie who is now a registered Independent. And now our rogue-in-chief, egomaniacal, self-absorbed bomb-thrower on the right, who I enthusiastically voted for twice seems to be dragging us into economic ruin after he did so well sealing the borders and putting out many of the Biden/Obama brushfires. Having an "R" or "D" behind your name seems no longer a very reliable way for me to determine whether they are truly in the business of politics for the country and its people or for themselves. Am I making an impact by having an "I" behind my name? No, probably not. But I have clearly stated, "I am not one of them". I don't wholly disagree with your assessment, Steve. I think maybe our own experiences color our narrative.
We are all, to greater or lesser degree, products of our environment and at present the environment is toxic, so I appreciate your position. Actually, I am in a similar state of mind. I can find something worth loathing in every politician on the state and federal scene. (I'm not that crazy about the ones in my township, for that matter.) Yet I am always mindful of the wisdom in the expression, "Compared to what?" I think the problem is that we have allowed our society to move so far from its traditional roots one ratchet click at a time, but for such a long time, that it's almost impossible to see where we came from when we look back at our past. We all want to get back to our American roots quickly, even though we were brought to our current situation gradually, like the proverbial frog-in-the-pot. We must all keep in mind that the perfect can be the enemy of the good, so any rejection of the socialist/atheist/feminist/DEI program, no matter how small is a good thing. As the Chinese philosopher once (probably apocrophally) said, "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." So, let's all try to keep on stepping!
Who washes the Overton window? And who keeps leaving it open?
Welcome to how a Maoist "struggle session" works, pushing the Overton Window on a personal scale. The side causing the discomfort and asking for compromises is the one controlling the window's movement. It's only when there's pushback that the window stays put or reverses. Those willing to cause the most pain and disruption are the ones who win this "contest".
The general disgust and malaise among the population can be directly traced to the lack of practical knowledge of how things work, at least in concept. For most sheeple, it simply is.
As our political landscape becomes increasingly polarized between the rent-seeking freepers and those who believe in personal accountability and productivity; those in the middle may push the window to the "Unacceptable" end of the range. For the fringe elements.
Excellent point, Tom!
Independents can't vote in primaries in most (all?) states.
So, no. They can't save us because they can't help select candidates that are more sane and / or centrist to begin with. They can only choose from what the primary elections offer up, and as we've seen those - at least on the left - are increasingly whack-o.
The Overton Window seems to be like a survey of the range of opinions, and how strongly they are held.
The extremes, mostly Left, seem to be able to shift the Window, at least in what is in the news and in the blogosphere.
I think that more of the "Independents" are coming from the Left, as their policies become more extreme and Sharia-tolerant, though the RINOs on the Right overlap those on the Left in many ways.
The Independents will make the swings greater, more personal, and more uncertain long before there are any centrist beliefs are developed.
The Left has been able to convince many of their believers that the incoming dangers that we on the Right see are not dangers at all, because "this time we are good enough to make it all work" and that rainbows and unicorns are right around the corner, as soon as we eliminate those evil kulaks.
John in Indy
NO, the independents will not save us. The sheeple will generally go with gives them the most "free" stuff, and, in the end, be surprised by a violent totalitarian government that is cleaning house. " What happened?!?!?!?"
You can vote your way into a toltarian/socialist/communist/dictatorship, but you have to shoot your way out. (BLOAT - jlr)
Sadly, sir, I can’t disagree.
Hard times yield good men -
Good men yield good times -
Good times yield soft men -
Soft men yield hard times
Sadly, we, as a nation, are in the 4th stage